Discussion about our current LOA system

An LOA system should only be a red flag if a person is more suited to an extremely casual group (i.e. not GOL) or they’re disorganised, unreliable and inconsiderate.

Letting event organisers know in good time you’re unlikely or unable to make it isn’t difficult: it’s basic courtesy, showing respect for other people’s time.

As far as existing members not bothering to fill out LOAs or posting last minute LOAs… that comes down to there never being any consequence. From my experience clan-gaming for 20 years, letting standards slide rarely results in more recruits or a better environment for existing members. But it’s a tough call with the Arma 3 situation. I don’t think there’s a good answer: just two bad ones and the only difference is the smell.

Quote from Joe Malley

his unit has over 300 active members

Comparing our situation to theirs is hardly possible.

The only thing to truly take away from this is that

1. Many Arma players join groups that are excessively huge, around company strength.

2. Many players don't want any responsibility or commitment with their membership.

Quote from Joe Malley

If people aren't posting LoAs, and we aren't particularly strict about it, whats the point in keeping the system?

If we're being lenient to a point where the system is not at all enforced, I agree, there's no point in having it.

Personally I call people out on missed LoAs if I notice, and that's usually done the trick. I think all NCOs should do this for consistency's sake. It's rare I have to remind anybody twice. Where people persist in not posting LoA and still cling to their active membership, that usually means there's a bigger commitment problem anyway. Those cases take their natural course...

As such a small group, I still think we're dependent on LoAs. I think we've communicated clearly to both new and existing members what the purpose is, and with the Reserve system were even offering a way out while retaining full membership.

If we continue to grow to platoon strength we will become less and less dependent on an LoA system, provided we do not set up fixed squads.

We're already on a middle ground. I don't see what the alternative to our way of handling things would be.

We play predefined scripted missions. Those missions therefore are adjusted to a - more or less - specific number of players. For instance: A mechanized mission with aerial reinserts, needs at least a vehicle crew, a pilot and a infantry group. Otherwise the mission can't be played as intended and we go for an other mission or replay.

Those big groups often play missions made on the go with zeus. This means one player is not participating activly but only putting down units, equipment, targets and stuff for the players. Since we are a relativly small group, we dont have such a luxury and it seems fairer to play with a predefined mission, because zeusing often leads to unfair situations and pvp incidents. Zeus is here only used in support for specific needs and not to create a entire mission.

If we want to get rid of LOAs, therefore a rough idea about player number on said event, we also must consider switching to zeus. Without any knowledge of the player number, we cant offer predefined missions with a lot of details, effects and 'love'. Which means one guy is busy an entire evening putting down stuff in hurry, while not beeing able to play. Also zeus has its limitation. You can do certain stuff, but you will never be able to get as much love into details. Even causing a lot of discussion afterwards since someone caused every issue and unfair situation, the mission has.

This is in my oppinion the reason, why LOAs are essential. Besides, we got the reservist system for those unwilling to leave LOAs.

to make a bold statement about the podcast and its impact on us: there is none.

why?

Because we simply dont do enough. We barely manage to push our steam discussion posting, we dont have a lot of audience in any of the highly competative social media platforms, although a lot of content is made, but barely seen and may very well never will be, and we dont do anything to get attention ingame and meet new people. We must increase those efforts. Those are the key elements. We all have to spend some time on this. Maybe we need new concepts, play OPs once all few months public or whatever. Our only and biggest problem is not enough recruitment effort. We need new ideas and we need a lot of commitment. We cant designate a recruitment officer as anyone get burned down by this burden. The group have to step up. And lets be honest, starting streams and youtube channels isnt done quickly and a extreme hard challenge. We may very well take an simpler route which is less time consuming and maybe more successful. I am not an expert in this field. I just feel we set our priorities wrong, dont spend enough time and group effort. We need realistic goals and realistic approach. We need time, commitment and all on board. We have a lot to offer. We must make sure, people get to know this. We should all stand together and work on this, NOW.

Possible solution: Someone applies to join. Does the interview and becomes a recruit. They stay in recruit status (equivalent to a reserve) until they pass the attendance requirement of showing up regularly, on time, and displaying good conduct. They would be aware of LOAs but know they are voluntary, and that LOAs are a sign of courtesy (this would mean existing members need to clean up their act and lead by example). Only if they’re willing to take the next step to becoming a member are they expected to post LOAs. At this point, missing a session would be an exception and not a big deal for them.

In short, we burden recruits only after they have become invested in GOL and feel a sense of belonging, community and responsibility.

I think a start to get things going in terms of recruitment is actually get a recruitment team and sort out the posts for that. We haven't actually done that which we said we'd do. Rephrase our recruitment post, bump the threads everyday etc. Think we really should get that going before we try anything else, doubt people see us at this point since there's no activity.

Forum threads have an annoying tendency to go off topic for pages on end.

First of all, do we want 300 members? Certainly not! I'd say we're quite happy in our little niche.

Having played with groups like that I can report that their gameplay is utter shite.

I don't think our LoA system is what keeps people from applying, what prevents us from retaining recruits.

I like hoofed 's suggestion to remove the LoA requirements for recruits. Makes sense.

We have what, four youtubers? Who rarely post videos. At least one regular streamer, whose streams are usually being watched by barely anyone but Neko.

We have two recruitment officers, PARKER and Blu. since the end of 2019 who regularly report their activities to Council.

I don't think our LoA system is what's keeping them from being successful in their efforts.

I agree with hoofed and Filth

Removal of LoA requirements for non active members and recruits is a good compromise, and the most i think we can offer. The lack of discipline in our group in posting LoAs, and even managing participation in events is utterly disheartening. And rude. Given the amount of time people put into giving them some fun.

In terms of what our overall goals are, it’s a good question and one which hasn’t really been addressed fully. And I’m particularly not in a position to state what those goals are. Which sounds contradictory, but I don’t see my role as benevolent dictator, but rather a temporary guardian of the post.

My PERSONAL opinion is that small is best. My dream is to have 25 regular members. All of them motivated, regular members.

That would be hard enough to manage whilst retaining the sort of standards we mostly enjoy.

I agree recruitment has gone missing. That’s a seperate topic. And one for when we have decided what our goals are.

This is another personal opinion. But our mix of characters dictate where we are and what we are. What we have, for better or worse, are a slightly conflicted group of guys, who get their fun in sometimes conflicting ways. Some aiming for realism, some leaning towards more action based gameplay. Some battered and cynical, some fresh and frustrated by the perception that the old hands are reluctant to move on from past and “hazy” glories.

It would be fantastic if we had some motivated YouTube/ Twitch social media content providers who are fully invested in being content producers and social media influencers. Sadly we currently don’t. I look at OCRP with Jeff favignano, Bay Area Buggs and CivRyan with more than a bit of jealousy. Three big influencers in one small clan. But even there they have other projects they are involved with and don’t always play on OCRP. And they mix the serious with the fun. And It’s their livelihood.

I personally see in Joe Malley a future possible leader of the group. (Whether he wants it or not 😆) And as such I would ask, what would be the perfect size of group you envisage? Because I feel size is everything in this case. It determines strategy for getting there, maintaining it, and developing gameplay to cater for it.

Since the LOA system and it's suggestion is based on "recruits" I think it's pretty valid to look into the actual recruitment side of things before we start thinking about changing our fundamentals. LOAs has been a thing since it was enforced in 1-1 that's like 7-8 years ago. And it's not too much to ask from people to just let us know if they won't play since the rest of the backbone of this group spend hours in and out of the game to keep it rolling. Like mentioned, it's just simple courtesy.

Agree about LOAs for recruit though, might not be good to push that responsibility on them, perhaps better to guide them and have a personal connection to them and ask them if they'll show up on the mission etc. It's kind of what I already do behind the scenes with all the latest recruits, but could do without that extra "responsibility" being forced upon them before we have proven to them that we are worth the effort and the time.

Our community is the product, gotta sell the product!

Quote from Joe Malley

we absolutely need to look at more recruitment posts and what not.

On the off topic subject of what's keeping us from gaining members.

I don't think it's the lack of publicity.

I still think it's about what I said initially, what we can take away from guys like Rimmy:

The majority of players look for the largest scale gameplay that is available. We're not it.

The majority of players look for units without any sort of commitment whatsoever. We're not that, either.

To draw more members not only do we need far more publicity. We'd need to fundamentally change what our group is about.

As a "battered, cynical old hand reluctant to let go of past glories" (not sure if I should be offended ), personally I'm not willing to do that.

Quote from Filth

As a "battered, cynical old hand reluctant to let go of past glories" (not sure if I should be offended ), personally I'm not willing to do that.

Same

I agree, we are in a limbo state in terms of what scope we have as a group and our current numbers. We don't need a massive spike or change, we just gotta find some good bits to improve our odds. We're doing okay to be honest, when I came back 4 months ago, it didn't look this good with the amount of people playing, people making missions and all that. So even though it's an interesting discussion and we should definitely keep at it, we're surviving and we be having fun.

We should be thankful at the moment for what we have, because at least from what I saw, we didn't have this in April and before that Would still like to plan the recruitment post and revisit old council summaries and get more heads into the game!

Just above platoon strength is between 25-30 regulars. (20-25 in certain forces)

Given that we usually have between 1/4 and 1/3 missing on any given session, we are looking at what, 30-40 active members to actually stand a chance of being at regular platoon strength?

Hey this is a start. At least it’s a statement of intent.

Because once we know what we want we can start to look at ways of getting it.

No offence meant, ya battered old bastards 😆