Arma 3 Creator DLC: S.O.G. Prairie Fire

    Steam page: https://store.steampowered.com…tor_DLC_SOG_Prairie_Fire/


    Looks kinda cool, as an editor I'm more interested in the modules they're adding:


    S.O.G. Prairie Fire is complemented by a wide range of additional content, usable only when the DLC is loaded. This includes:

    • a Master Arm module for servicing and arming aircraft
    • a Logistics module for transporting items and casualties
    • a completely new voice-acted Battlefield Revive system
    • a Tunnel module for easy creation of tense underground missions
    • a Vietnam-era Artillery and Air support module to quickly call support from actual US callsigns
    • a quick-to-enable earplugs system
    • a vehicle jukebox
    • a melee system for close-quarter fighting
    • tree platforms and foxholes that enable soldiers to hide above or under ground

    I can’t post a screenshot from the Steam store page but the only information we have at the moment is this:


    Quote

    COMPATIBILITY DATA FOR NON-OWNERS


    People who do not own the S.O.G. Prairie Fire DLC will be able to download and install the DLC's optional data via the Arma 3 Steam Workshop. Subscribing to this Workshop item will make it possible for potential buyers to try out many of the DLC's assets prior to purchasing. It will also enable non-owners to join multiplayer servers that make use of DLC content. Be aware that access to the DLC's terrain and campaign will remain exclusive to owners of the DLC. Restrictions to the use of non-owned content will also apply.

    Sounds like the same situation as the GM - Cold War Germany DLC. If you don’t own it you can see the uniforms, vehicles, weapons with the aid of a Workshop mod but you can’t use the items. The terrain is only available to people who buy the DLC.

    Quote from Oksman

    I'd say it would be nice for a campaign much like GM it can't be standard, think it's pretty rare out there in the wilds

    Honestly, I think the real value will come from the building props and editing modules, at least for our group since I agree that creator DLC should never be required to be.


    But using the workshop compatibility we would be able use those props and modules in any mission, allowing us to place the buildings on any map e.t.c


    We will also be able to fight against enemies using assets from the DLC without watermarks, so in theory, with only the compatibility mod you could have a pretty good Vietnam mission on a map like Tanoa fighting against good looking Vietcong, as long as the equipment we use isn't from the DLC nobody would get a watermark.


    This is also a reason to add the GM Compatability mod, so we can fight against good-looking BMPs and stuff, especially as were looking at ditching cup. However I would argue that we would get less value from GM since we have RHS and other mods, but maybe it will be worth it when the CSLA creator dlc comes out and we could use all 3 compat mods

    Quote from Joe Malley

    the real value

    The real value of all this GM stuff is very, very difficult to spot for me. If CWG is any indication, and I believe it is, there is unfortunately no need to get excited about any of this.


    It's redundant. We can get the same thing for free. Likely at much smaller file size, at marginally lower quality. In fact you could argue quite feasibly that even with what we have in our pack today, you could put together a somewhat consistent Vietnam style scenario.

    It's extremely specific, something for individual missions or campaigns. The rest of the time we'll have 30GB rotting away on our drives.

    It's restricting even with the Workshop aid. You'll have to campaign long and hard to convince people to put their money down if you do want to get "real value" out of it. Have fun debating this with every potential recruit individually.

    Keep in mind that, additionally, many technical aspects of this are unknown. You might be looking at completely fucked up damage handling just like in CWG. Sure, fighting against good looking BMPs is nice, until they one-shot your T-100's frontal armour with an HE round from their main gun.


    Not to mention the marketing strategy behind this on BI's part is rather reprehensible. A community with any sense in it won't support it.


    Meh/10 Won't buy.

    The new dlcs will be added to the server anyways. It worked fine with GM and will with the rest. I personally will just buy all arma dlcs, since it is the game i play most.


    I think GM was always too specific with their East- vs. West-Germany conflict. It may change when the other Iron Curtain DLC arrives and fills the gap. Currently i see more value in playing it for a camaign, but not including it to our standart library - at least not with the normal price. A VN scenary is more tempting for me (played about 570h in rising storm vn).

    Quote from Filth

    It's redundant. We can get the same thing for free. Likely at much smaller file size, at marginally lower quality. In fact you could argue quite feasibly that even with what we have in our pack today, you could put together a somewhat consistent Vietnam style scenario.

    i would not agree on this, since many of the Unsan Team were involved with making the DLC. Unsan was supported by Patreon thus far to provide the free content. It is interesting to see, where this will go. Probably those Patreons will be left a bit confused when they start selling content their donates made possible in the first place.

    Quote from falseprophet

    Unsan was supported by Patreon thus far to provide the free content. It is interesting to see, where this will go. Probably those Patreons will be left a bit confused when they start selling content their donates made possible in the first place.

    So much on reprehensible marketing strategies the Arma community shouldn't throw money at, imo.

    i dont support anyone on patreon. creating a mod in the quality of dlc takes a lot of time and effort, therefore i think a compensation is fair. Yet i expect them to be of the same quality standards with the same level of long lasting support. if you look at many mod projects, even RHS and CUP they still heavily relay upon BI original content from older games. I did create a bf109 and tried to create an as332 back in the days of arma2. It was a massiv task and in the end, it took too much effort to finnish both or even one fully fleshed out. Therefore i can say, i see a market and some value when done right. What could end up as a failure is when they bring out too many of those mods and people wont purchase the whole arma experience and the playerbase get split up into groups. Still i hope those mods make a replacement for some of ours at some stage with more quality content. And i am willing to pay for that.

    Quote from hoofed

    a steaming heap of garbage, like Unsung.

    It's Arma, much of it is janky, much of it is garbage. The APCs, the helicopters, the rifles, the AT, the body armour, the maps, all of it an endless redundant ocean of garbage. RHS, CUP, Unsung, Cold War Germany, BW Mod, Contact, all of it rather equally garbage bottom line.


    Garbage that's kept this game going for the past eight years, surprisingly. It really makes you wonder.


    Anyway so we'll now start paying for our redundant garbage content then. Because it's the

    Quote from falseprophet

    whole arma experience

    BI promise they aren't taking you for a ride. 100% garbage free!


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    In all seriousness though this is what it comes down to for the group:


    Do we want to play Vietnam style, and only Vietnam style, scenarios on a regular basis?

    If so, do we want to pay 20 quid for what we can reasonably expect to be marginally better quality?

    If so, do we want to deal with this one:

    Quote from falseprophet

    the playerbase get split

    Sure, I'd play Vietnam. Played Unsung many times, its a janky, yet immersive and welcome change of pace - free of charge.

    But I won't start paying for mods.

    And lastly, a group like ours can't afford to split the base any further. Pushing Contact was a major mistake that cost us dearly.

    Quote from Filth

    It's Arma, much of it is janky, much of it is garbage. The APCs, the helicopters, the rifles, the AT, the body armour, the maps, all of it an endless redundant ocean of garbage. RHS, CUP, Unsung, Cold War Germany, BW Mod, Contact, all of it rather equally garbage bottom line.

    Spare me this nonsense that most mods are just as bad as each other. They’re not. Unsung is a particularly poor quality modpack when it comes to air vehicles.


    I’ll be testing Prairie Fire with the intention of playing it outside of GOL’s normal events, either with people from GOL or with another group if I have to. If it turns out to be trash I can warn others and save them some money.

    Quote from hoofed

    They’re not.

    Of course they're not. I wasn't serious.


    What I was trying to say though in all seriousness is that I haven't seen a mod pack or a DLC yet that didn't have some problematic or low quality content in it that needed working around, research, complementing, avoiding. That's what all of them without exception have in common. So my point is, we must manage our expectations and we must do the work.

    And in one way or another that's also what you're saying, I believe. And I'd agree with that.


    But you're also saying that when one piece of something is bad, thus the whole thing is bad. Unsung has bad airframes, therefor Unsung = trash. Even though the ground gameplay has been very enjoyable.

    Anyway for the sake of argument let's apply that line of reasoning and see what we get.

    • CUP also has rather bad airframes you tell us, therefor I have no doubt that CUP must also = trash, in spite of everything else it brings to the table.
    • RHS has horrible vehicles therefor I should consider RHS = trash.
    • Livonia has bad optimisation therefor Contact = trash.
    • PiP driver periscopes and broken damage handling in CWG so obviously = trash.
    • Metis ATGM does no damage to anything so Tanks DLC = trash.

    All of that stuff needs to go straight in the bin.

    The obvious expectation after all is flawless, pristine, high quality content without exception.


    Are we still talking about the same game?

    It's a comical oversimplification, not a compelling argument.


    The reality of how we use content successfully is very different: it's compromise.


    With that said, let's again apply your line of reasoning in the opposite way. When one piece of something is good, thus the whole thing is good.

    Let's say for the sake of argument, Pairie Fire has good air frames. So Prairie Fire = god tier DLC, and we must have it?

    CWG's Marder SPz is juicy, so I must push for it?

    I pushed for Contact because I liked Livonia and the LDF. That lost us three recruits, and that wasn't even because of quality considerations.


    A lot of bias yet to work through. Compelling arguments (against playing Vietnam using Unsung, for example) yet to be made.